Following a recent Court of Appeals decision declaring pit bulls inherently dangerous animals, one Baltimore County Councilman says the county may have to look at rules governing its dog parks.
Councilman David Marks said he believes he and his colleagues will eventually have to take up the issue of pit bulls or other aggressive dogs. One of those areas could be more stringent regulations on county dog parks.
"It's a good question," Marks said. "I don't see that there are a lot of standardized regulations to go along with these dog parks, which are becoming very popular in the county."
Marks was involved in working to get a dog park for the Honeygo area. The Perry Hall Republican said he's also had requests for similar parks from the Loch Raven Village and Rodgers Forge communities.
The possibility of opening up another debate on breed specific legislation may not excite many on the council who remember the emotional debate that stemmed from then-Councilman Vince Gardina's attempts to regulate dogs that are determined to be aggressive.
In 2007, Gardina proposed legislation requiring that those dogs be muzzled in public and, when outside in a yard, be kept in a locked run that was covered. The proposed law came in the wake of a near fatal attack on Dominic Solesky.
Solesky, then 10, was nearly killed while playing in an alley near his Towson home, when a pit bull escaped from its yard and attacked him and friend. The dog ripped away a large portion of Solesky's thigh and severed his femoral artery.
The boy survived after undergoing five hours of surgery and 17 days in a pediatric care unit.
Gardina's bill did not pass.
The Court of Appeals decision last week was directly related to a lawsuit filed by the Solesky family against the owner of the dog and the landlord of the property where the owners lived.
Marks said efforts related to the dog parks might not focus specifically on a particular breed.
"It might not be pit bulls," Marks said. "It might be aggressive dogs in general."
Cheryl Cohen
1:17 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
I seriously think there are many agressive dogs that visit dog parks....I think this is going to open up a whole new "can of worms!"
StuartD
1:53 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
I agree. We have 2 Boxers and a Chow (rescue). Our Chow was rescued at 6yrs old (now 15). People call them aggressive...it is all about the handler. We have been to the HoCo Dog Park many a time and the owners don't pay attention to the dogs or interact. They start texting on the mobile phones, allowing their dogs to hump others because they don't think it is aggressive/dominant behavior, etc. I have had pit bulls and Doberman’s in the past (when living in Florida...my home state). They were wonderful with people, other dogs, children, cats, etc. As long as they are socialized appropriately and owned by someone that has a strong personality....they are great. We have too many people that go and purchase/adopt dogs based on the esthetics...not understanding the breed’s characteristics and what it takes to train/raise them (properly). Boxers are another breed that people purchase because of their looks and many of them are dropped off at shelters and rescues do to being hyper. They do have a lot of energy (like bully breeds) and just require an owner who is active to take them on long walks and exercise them regularly so they can focus their energy properly instead of turning into boredom and aggression. This is why I tend to think we have a lot of dog owners out there that just should own dogs.
MikeC
8:40 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
This is strange. I've been reading on this site that understanding the difference in breed characteristics is akin to bigotry. Could it be that someone chooses a breed of dog because of the difference in breed characteristics? Hmmm.
Able Baker
4:53 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Could it be that there are lots of reasons people choose a breed of dog and an either/or is a false dilemma? Hmmm...
Red Dolphin
9:14 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
"This is why I tend to think we have a lot of dog owners out there that just should own dogs." for whatever reason. the result us ,,,,, what got people concerened. sure you can manipulate statistics,,,,,,,,,,,,, (some one questions tose taking the surveys, so there for dont believe any survey, even if s its giving you a proportion not an exact number,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that what we;ll go by.,.......... you can question it . but some of us will still take stock in it.......... the handlews do make a difference. somne people get pits for the prestige ( or is in style ) maybe they odnt bite mmore than other breeds .maybe they do........... but when they do they dont let go,,,,,,,,,, they have more pressure than other breeds ( not a random survey , fact)
Sweetie Pie
11:38 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
It's sad that you, as a Boxer owner, are ending up the dupe of the pit bull and 'humane' society deceptions. Do a simple search for 'adoptable dogs' at shelters almost anywhere, you'll find dogs you (as a real Boxer owner) recognize as pit bulls being touted as 'Boxer' or 'Boxer mix'.
The solution to this isn't, I don't think, to advocate for pit bulls. Boxers are fine with other dogs if, as you say, like any other dog, they're socialized etc. If I were in your shoes, I'd be objecting to Boxers getting a truly bad rap because of how the pit-lobby / humane societies are abusing the Boxer look to convince people to adopt what are in fact pits and pit-mixes.
StuartD
1:56 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
By the way....always recommended by any dog trainer that if you take a dog to the park...walk them 1mile before hand so they don't go with high energy which can be misunderstood by other dogs as aggressive. Another one....Dog Parks are not good for dogs due to other bad dog and dog owners. I actually use a dog trainer. Worth every penny.
Sweetie Pie
11:52 am on Monday, June 4, 2012
Sorry, but this walk-a-mile-first wasn't true before the pit fashion began. There's a huge scientific literature on how good the NORMAL domestic dog is in peacefully (ritually) avoiding and solving conflicts, a millennium-long history of having domestic dogs wandering around free among us and at our sides without being a threat to us or each other or our children and cattle. There's also a growing scientific lit on what is, indeed, genetically wrong with the pit-bull type dog (as a biological type, thus including all its mixes and derivatives). Boxers aren't pit-bull type dogs, it's just that a lot of shelters are passing pits (-mixes) off as Boxers.
Before she became a pit-advocate, Jean Donaldson pointed out that dogs have for millennia raised their young and regulated their relations without our help [The Culture Clash] . Alexandra Semyonova has expanded on this [ http://nonlilneardogs.com ] by explaining how the process works. Then there's Branwyne's comment [ http://blog.dogsbite.org/2012/01/saving-mans-best-friend.html ] that explains the shift in perceptions (not in real dog behavior) that's been going on since these KKK dogs became all the fashion.
It's sad (in my eyes) if dog trainers are adjusting their recommendations for normal dogs as if all dogs were pit bulls.
Guess next we'll be adjusting the entire way our society runs to what psychopaths do and need?
This is making me sooooo sad....
Able Baker
12:12 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
KKK dogs. Good lord, now I know you're unhinged.
William Lutostanski Jr
2:11 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
Now we will descriminate against people not on race or color but on the breed of dog that they own. If anything we should be passing laws that protect the rights of people who own animals from discrimination, such as in Pa where insurance companies can not ask you what breed of animal you own. Not to mention a dog park on County Property maintained by the County that won't allow all dogs access, I find this funny. Hi welcome to the Honeygo Regional Dog Park where only poodles are allowed. Or maybe it could be Chiwawas, wait Chiwawas like to bite people, that is vicious and aggressive , I think they should be banned. This whole thing is a mess and goverment should stay out of the dog breed buisness, and concentrate on people !
Buck Harmon
2:57 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
Agree..
Evets
6:22 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
I agree! Of course a dog park on county property maintained by the county (your words) would invite some regulation, would it not? Either the government is involved or they are not. Hard to have to have it both ways...
Momof2
8:26 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
I think you are missing the point! We are not talking about biting. We are talking about mauling. Big difference. Poodles bite, dangerous dogs maul to kill.
StuartD
11:19 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
I agree. I find it funny that small dogs biting are treated as aggressive. Put them down for biting. Just because they are small doesn't mean that behavior isn't just as bad.
MikeC
8:48 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
Thank yo, Momot2, for your tidbit common sense injected into this debate. When was the last time you heard about Chihuahuas mauling and killing. As a kid I was bitten a few times by a neighbor's Chihuahua. It was a bit easier as a 5 yr old to stay away from that dog than if he'd had an aggressive Pit sitting next to him. I wouldn't have been allowed near the home if that were the situation.
Red Dolphin
11:08 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
a poodle isnt going to clamp down with the force of a pit and then not let go, are there so many cases of poodle attacks that are covered up ? I wonder if those who think its unfair to band pit bulls had their child attacked iwould feel differently ? or you think that all these attacks are exaggerated? are'nt there statistics to support this ? again I have to point out they clamp down and do not let go,,,,,,,,,,, you can claim unfairness to the breed all you want , but most people are very intimidated by pits,,,,,,,,and again the numbers support their feelings too,
I dont trust them at all,,,,,,,,, I love dogs,,,,,,,,, I do not love pit bulls,,,,,,,,,, I got bit by one,,,,,,,,,,,,Ive never been bit by any other dog ever
Rhonda
10:32 am on Tuesday, May 8, 2012
William I guess you mean Chihuahuas. Being a pet groomer for many yrs I have to agree, the most aggressive dogs are usually the small ones under 30lbs. The major problem with Pit Bulls & other "Bully Breeds" is the strength of their jaws. It's pretty obvious that a big dog can cause more damage then a small one. We need laws to hold owners responsible for their pets! I have 2 mixed breeds and when I take them to a dog park I walk them around on leash to see if there is any dogs that may be a problem or if my dogs have a problem with the dogs there that day. It's about common sense but in this day & age there seems to be a lack of it. Pit Bulls and other bully breeds should not be banned but bad owners should be! People who rent their properties should know what animals are living on their properties! Again, common sense!
Robin Duvall
11:05 am on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Any dog is capable of attacking/mauling other animals or people. It is not breed specific! There was a case several years ago in Perry Hall that a Golden Retriever attack a child in front of the dogs house. The dog busted out of the screen door and went after the child. The woman in England who was the first facial transplant was attacked by her Labrador Retriever. I think biting out your lips and nose would be considered a mauling, don't you? The media, as with everything else, will sensationalize anything for ratings. Any dog is capable doing extreme damage to humans and other animals. Don't just pin it on the Pitt Bulls.
Able Baker
4:55 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Pit bulls don't have stronger jaws than any other dog of a similar size. Anyone who says differently is feeding you a line.
Sweetie Pie
12:44 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
William, one of gov't's roles is to protect public health. You do realize that without gov't, there would be no sewer systems or trash collection? Do you understand that this gov't interference increased our longevity more than all the medical discoveries before and after that? By interfering in killer-dog breeds, our gov't *is* concentrating on people and human public health, no less than when it built our sewage systems.
I own a goofy-friendly, non-pit dog, but I carry half a million on insurance in case it runs in front of a car and someone gets hurt trying not to run it over. Why don't you already own insurance for your pit regardless of whether it's more dangerous than my dog?
And why shouldn't insurance companies ask what breed (type) of dog you own? Young male drivers pay more for insurance because they cause more accidents. Ie, they present more actuarial risk. They SHOULD pay for this themselves -- or would you like to pay for this for them? You know, forbid insurance companies to ask what sex and age a drive is?
Pit-bull type dogs represent 3000% higher actuarial risk than all other dogs. I'm not up for having my premiums hiked because of your choice, and I don't think that's 'descrimination'. It's just 'choose the behavior, choose the consequences.'
Please go buy insurance for your pit-type dog, now, before it's too late. I chose a non-pit dog, if your premiums are higher, well, you pay for your own choices.
Sweetie Pie
12:49 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
@ Red Dolphin 11:08 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012: I love dogs,,,,,,,,, I do not love pit bulls,,,,,,,,,,""
Given the numbers of ordinary, not fighting / baiting bred dogs that are being killed every single day by pit-bull type dogs, anyone who loves dogs must be for legislating strong controls (if not bans) on the pit-bull type dogs (and all their mixes and derivatives).
Either you love pit bulls OR you love dogs. One or the other, both isn't possible.
FastDog
2:25 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
Then open that can up! Caeser Milan would say exactly what Stuartd said, however, it is quite clear that there is a fighting culture in Baltimore working against the APBT. I no longer trust any owner in BC that they have control of their pit, rather I change my direction when I see one. It is just safer that way. As it pertains to off leash dog parks, they can be a great tool and a great place to do some long safe retrieving, such as using a Chuck-It. A lot of Marylanders seem to think it place to take their under-walked, under-trained dogs to pee, poop and magically be stable with 20 or so foreign animals. Here is a tip, when you see a dog in a park trying to hump another dog, see if the owner at least corrects that behavior. Some never do and others are forced to do it for them That should be your cue that they are ignorant of the ways of the dog and get out of there. Try to go to a park when nobody is there.
Tim
3:37 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
It's completely true. Several times a year we catch dog-walkers not cleaning up after the dogs after they drop deuces on our property. If we see'em, we walk out and say "Hey, I notice your dog just took a dump in our yard - did you need a bag to pick that up?".
The looks on these irresponsible/self-entitled people is priceless.
StuartD
11:22 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
HoCo is no better. Promise!!!! Besides BARC Park I only have one other park we go to where all dog owners are very respectful and attentive...it is our secret location that we don't even share with our friends. I don't want this sanctuary to become another crazy park. By the way, my favorite thing is when people at some of these dog parks bring toddlers (clearly not allowed) and let them walk around the large dog side and play. Bloody amazing!!!!
Sweetie Pie
12:52 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
FastDog, you need to do some reading about normal mammalian (including dog) behavior. Never mind the Mexican dog-hairdresser who has come to fame, and who talks about women the same way he talks about dogs. There's a lot of science out there, maybe take a look at some of it?
Sweetie Pie
12:54 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
BTW, I don't mean to say you're wrong to change direction rather than get anywhere near a pit with your dog. The various fighting-type dogs are in no way normal dogs. You're doing right by avoiding them with your normal dog.
Buck Harmon
3:00 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
David Marks...please focus on things that will improve the quality of life for the majority of human beings....dogs will be dogs with or without regulating laws that discriminate..
David Marks
7:32 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
Buck, I am certainly doing that: looking at the development potential of more than 480 acres in the Fifth District, fighting for school improvements, trying to expand recreational opportunities in the Loch Raven Reservoir, and working to pass legislation that reforms the zoning and development process and makes government more accessible to the public. And, for animal lovers, I have been working very hard to open at least one new dog park in the Fifth District. All I am saying is that the court decision should be a source of discussion, and that we should do whatever we can to prevent horrible incidents like that which occured to the Solesky family, who live in my district. I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I know there are people with many different viewpoints, but that incident was horrific and should never have occurred.
Buck Harmon
9:32 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
Thanks for the response David,
I respect your decisions, and appreciate especially the fact that you make yourself available to these forums.
I am a life long Baltimore Co. resident that has seen many bad laws created out of emotion rather than legal reasoning. I'm glad not to be in your position with this decision, but do believe that it discriminates...and that's a bad thing.
David Marks
10:48 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
Buck, I understand...thank you for sharing.
John Doby
8:38 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
Mr Marks, if you are going to place restrictions on the dog park, please word them in a manner that pertains to all dogs. I’ve been around and owned dogs all my life and I can tell you that most of the aggressive dogs that I’ve seen are smaller breeds. For the most part, it’s not the large breeds that cause problems. Also, the large breed dogs that are aggressive are not normally taken to dog parks because the owners know not to even if they are not considered a good owner.
fred
4:27 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012
it appears that with dog parks enforcement will be needed, maybe the speed camera program should be expanded so big brother can watch and grab a little more revenue.
The Mom
5:04 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012
Maybe the state should have more strict laws concerning the owners. This might sound too simplistic but couldn't we have laws in place that anyone who owns a dog or wants to own a dog be evaluated much like is done when wanting to adopt a pet?
Some adoption places even come to the prospective owner's home. Even during ownership, there should be a way to report the dog's behavior, and not have it be ignored by the 'authorities'. This might even take care of constant dog barking issues as well. These should be able to be anonymous complaints, and by more than one neighbor to show it is legitimate. The person in question shouldn't be allowed to have a pet if they can't treat it right. jmo
ps I think the biting issue with the pit breed partially comes from their jawline, if you will, hence the mauling and not 'just' biting(?) Not sure, I've not investigated the issue :)
Sweetie Pie
1:07 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Thank you David Marks! [I'm a Maryland voter, BTW, not some outsider trying to tell Marylanders how to live.] By supporting the Maryland ruling, you are doing exactly what 'Buck Harmon' asks you to do -- focus on quality of life for the majority of human beings in your constituency. The pit fans are a very small, though very screaming, minority in your constituency. We, who do NOT want to run into pits either with our children or our normal family dogs, are in the vast majority.
Quality of life includes, IMO, not having to worry when my 10-y-o daughter walks our little muttsy-type dog (20 lbs) that she'll have the trauma of having some pit-type attack our dog and watch it die before her young eyes. Worse yet that she'll get mauled trying to help her little housemate and family member.
I (Maryland voter) would love it if we returned to the old days, the pre-pit days, when we could take our normal dogs and our children out without fearing an encounter with a genetically driven mauler / killer. I hope, but really hope, you won't mistake the tantrums and screamings of a small minority of irresponsible MD residents for what us voters really want. Thank you so far!
Sweetie Pie
1:24 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
@ The Mom : 5:04 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012 "Maybe the state should have more strict laws concerning the owners."
Hi Mom, this is what the Maryland ruling does. It says owners of a type of dog that shows a 3000% actuarial risk above all other dogs must buy insurance...otherwise the landlord is vulnerable (his own insurance policy) and might want to put them out.
@ The Mom: couldn't we have laws in place that anyone who owns a dog or wants to own a dog be evaluated much like is done when wanting to adopt a pet?""
It would be okay with me if, aside from what the MD ruling rightly imposes specifically on pit-bull fans, all shelters checked first whether an adopter has adequate liability insurance for owning a dog at all. Anyone who hasn't taken this step in advance is unfit to own a dog! How much are they going to spend on food and vet care if insurance is already too much for them?
I do agree with your comments about the failings of Animal Control. Thanks!
Buck Harmon
9:23 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
I think we all have a little "Pit Bull" in us from time to time....no matter how we're bred...
Momof2
11:56 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
Yes, Buck and if we acted like a pitbull and attacked like them we would probably go to jail of a while.
Sweetie Pie
1:10 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Buck, will you please not project your own qualities onto the rest of us?
Buck Harmon
5:39 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Sounds like your inner Bull pitting SweetPie...
Sweetie Pie
10:40 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
It's time legislators stopped listening to all kinds of imbecilic amateurs and rich lobbyists, and started (as this judge did) protecting their constituencies. Not all of them are mentally retarded, take a look at what an intelligent pit-bull fan has to say at this link, scroll down to 'The Ten Commandments of Pit Bull Ownership':
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/breedinfo.html
Pit-bull type dogs maim and kill more humans yearly than all other breeds / types of dogs combined. They viciously slaughter even more non-human animals every year. There is every reason to restrict the pit bull in all kinds of ways. I hope politicians understand that polls show more than two thirds of voters are FOR bans on these deviant dogs. I hope that they also understand that all these out-of-town pit bull lobbyists won't be the ones voting in the next local election.
Parting shot:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/48995510/By-Zupf---PowerPoint-Presentation---Pit-Bull-Attack-Movie---By
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u2VTE11sdL0
and for those who like science (and aren't illiterate):
http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsurgery/Abstract/2011/04000/Mortality,_Mauling,_and_Maiming_by_Vicious_Dogs.23.aspx
StuartD
11:25 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
Due to their irresponsible/ill trained/ill equipped owners. This is a British breed that has always been very loyal. Let's just say all dogs are banned from the US and only foxes and Coyotes are allowed. That sounds good. Being a dog owner (much like being a parent) is a privilege...not a right. So own it and treat it as this. If you do this you will have a wonderful companion.
StuartD
11:27 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
Forgot one allowed..... North American Wolf...totally allowed. All other canines MUST BE EUTHANIZED per Sweetie Pie
StuartD
11:28 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
Okay...I take it back...you are for it. I am so angry reading this I am getting confused. I need to move to Alaska where it doesn't matter. (My Bad)
MikeC
9:02 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
Thank you, Sweetie. I'm glad someone here could inject some factual information into this discussion. Information similar to what the judges who issued the corresponding verdict. And I'm glad they weren't swayed by emotional pleas by people who own these dogs. There are, indeed, differences in breed. You can check the differences on any book or site dedicated to detailing dog breeds. Sure you can train dogs to be closer to what you would like them to be. You can train them to do tricks too, but certain dog breeds will perform better than others and a dog of a certain breed will always have come characteristics that are innate to their breed. As people here have complained, Chihuahua's are more apt to bite than many other breeds, and as Sweetie proves through her links, Pits have characteristics that cause them to maim, maul and kill not only more often than other dog breeds, but much more often.
Robin Duvall
12:35 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
You left these out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdG_Aad5CAM -Golden Retriever and Austrailian Shepard attack a woman killing her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK-6lL-Digk-cocker spainiel attacks guide dog
http://www.essfta.org/health_research/aggression.htm- dscription of "rage" syndromes in springer spaniels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States This not only list pitt and pitt mixes but several other breeds of dog. You see it's not just Pitt Bulls that maul people to death. This also states that where the dogs were and how they were kept. Lots of chained dogs, no socialization I am sure. Make the law across the board for all breeds and hold OWNERS accaountable, not landlords.
Able Baker
5:33 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Great, here comes the tools of personal injury attorneys. Dog attacks are pretty rare, fatal attacks are rarer than being struck by lightning.
The "science" in that paper is terribly flawed.
1. Tiny sample size.
2. Significant difference in population of people injured vs. population where breed was identified.
3. No controls for breed identification.
4. No proof that the Glasgow Coma Scale is an appropriate measure for dog bite trauma.
In short, barely science. But you know, people make their decision and then gin up some "facts" to support it, so it's not really surprising. Can't expect a bunch of hysterical mothers and ambulance chasers to form a well considered opinion.
StuartD
11:15 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012
What I find funny about MD rules/policies is that they are only "kind of" followed. We use to have a membership at HoCo ($45 a yr). Now, as a member I have to prove that my dog is vaccinated/licensed/etc, but as a person who just wants to visit for the day I pay $5 for the day AND I am suppose to put my dogs Rabies Vacc's number on the slip of paper. Mind you none of this is verified and if (big if) anyone who volunteers to work here shows up....most of the folks/dogs at the park depart because they are there without paying, etc. I brought this up and the board didn't care. I am now only a member at BARC in Reisterstown. You have to be a member and you get a code to the gate (no code/no access). The code changes regularly...etc. My point is, the folks running the park must have policies and follow them. If people know they are known and the park has their info, they are more likely to give a crap and monitor the activity at the park. These same bad dog owners are the same folks with kids who walk the mall with a 3yr old....ignoring the kid and chatting on their cell phone with their BFF. Yes you have random bad eggs (Dogs and kids)....but we don't give up on them...we work harder with them and give them a little extra attention. So, let's all be responsible people, dog owners, parents, neighbors. Just have some responsibility and quit blaming everything and everyone (dogs included) and blame yourself.
Momof2
5:08 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012
We put up safety fences around swimming pools. Why not protect the public from moving dangerous dogs with legislation?
Dave
8:48 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012
I am not anti pit but pro dog control. The problem is everyone thinks their pit is cute and cuddly until they are not. When they turn as any dog may the results are devastating. Pit bulls are dog of mass destruction. When most dogs bite a band aid is needed but when a pit bull gets you it is a trip to the ER. We have controls on things that are more dangerous or outside the norm. Think tractor trailers, guns, out-door burning. We have seen an escalation of pit dog attacks as breeders try to main stream these dogs. Things have been let go for too long. We need to get the message out that the pit bull breeds require the utmost effort to control and not treated as most dogs. The current laws fail here so it is time to get pit owners attention and make sure they know there are real consequences when they fail to control their dogs. Just control your dog and all should be fine for everyone.
Two time pit victim
Buck Harmon
6:55 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
Any law pertaining to dog owners must apply EQUALLY to all dog owners...period.
Evets
7:28 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
Yes, it should be right there in the Constitution: There shall be no discrimination based on race, gender, religious practices, sexual preferences, or the type of dog you have.
Buck Harmon
9:01 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
Yes Evets, However I would re-word the end of your sentence to say..or the type of dog that you choose freely to own. Thank you..
FastDog
4:22 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
Buck...And it shall, just not to all dogs! Because all dogs are not created equal, part by design of nature and part by nurture.
Able Baker
5:35 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Sorry people that got bit by dogs other than pit bulls. Everyone else gets a free pass.
Sweetie Pie
1:33 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
I'm back here after a couple of days, and am sorry Dave to see the ridiculous and belittling reactions you have (typically) got from the pit-fans. This Buck Harmon person is clearly worried that he'll have to pay for insurance whose premiums will reflect the real risk his chosen un-dog presents. As a dog owner, I object here again to having to share the risk this Buck Harmon is choosing, Buck pay your own premiums just like the juvenile male car driver!
Their selfishness abounds, these pit fans.
And their strange dummy-ness. Comes Buck back retorting to Evets with 'Yes, type of dog you freely chose to own'-- but all the same, dear Buck hopes us other dog owners will carry the consequences of this (as he says) free choice he made.
They continue to amaze in their weird Narcissism, these pit people. I am hoping and hoping that my legislators don't fall for this.
Able Baker
6:09 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
If your dog is as gentle as you say, then you should have no problem with it meeting the same standard as a pit bull.
Momof2
9:09 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012
WELL PUT!!
Dennis Gilpin
9:15 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012
Dave, As you know, it's all about controlling your dog.All the Pit Bull attacks resulted from poor supervision.I had as much as 6 Great Danes at a time as I bred them.Would I release them to just run loose when their weight was as much as 200lbs. ? If they were aggressive they easily would have the ability to kill. I was doing an appointment at a house on Millers Island. AS I stood and talked to person A German Sheperd walked out of the next yard,walked up to me and bit me on the leg. Opened it up. After that he walked back in the yard and laid back down I went to the owners door and told him what had just happened. He was amazed that the dog did it again. It seems there was a similar incident the previous week. If he knew it was a problem why not contain the dog. His answer was he thought it was an isolated incident.I found out the dog had all his shots but I reported it as a potential problem in the neighborhood.These are the people who put the public at risk.They assume things and you can't do this with animals.
Red Dolphin
11:33 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
" If they were aggressive " exactly............ lets look at the stats ? is it sensationalizing I ask ? sure seems like you hear of alot of cases involving pits. is it true that most other breeds will bite you and let go whereas a pit bullwil cmap down and hold on tight and jerk its head viciously until chunk s of flesh are ripped off its target?
Able Baker
5:36 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Yes, lets look at the stats. The best "study" anti-pit bull crowd can come up with is a review of some newspaper articles, which we all know are highly accurate.
Sweetie Pie
1:53 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Yes, Dennis, and as you know I had a similar incident when I was taking care of as many a six Tigers at a time.
Geeze...
Pete
6:34 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
Councilman Marks,
As an owner of a well mannered pit-mix rescue,I would encourage you and your colleagues to educate yourselves on the true origin of the breed and it's "inherent" characteristics before making any decisions and not to rely solely on your constituents, which at times, appear not to have spent much time around the breed. It's interesting to read the AKC describes both the Am Staff and Staffordshire Bull Terriers, both considered in the "pit-bull" family, as people friendly and even good with children (ask my 5yr old or watch a rerun of the Little Rascals and look for Petey). It's the owner, not the breed. I suggest you read, "Lost Dogs".
Lastly, are you a dog owner and how many of your colleagues are dog owners? Thank you in advance.
Red Dolphin
11:20 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
i was walkng my 34 lbs black lab when a pit bull broke loose from its owner an came after my dog I picked up a large rock and held it up i the air the pit could see he wasnt welcome to come over,,,,,,,,,,, did I over re-act ? I just didnt know what the pit was going to do,,,,,,, there were state cops there and they said to me "you odnt have to do that " I said well come get 'em then" if your dog comes at me in an agressive manner I dont care what breed he is Im gonna be ready!
usually you can "read a dogs" dispostion. do you all agree? but ive seen pits wag their tails and appear to be friendly and then WHAM! call me what you want Im going to protect my family and my pet from any dog that shows aggression ,,,,,,
Sweetie Pie
1:38 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Pete, you better cross your fingers that MD legislators DO NOT educate themselves about the true origin of the Ku Klux Klan fighting dog and its inherent characteristics. This would spell true disaster for you. Be careful what you wish for!
Evets
7:24 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
Oh the horrors of discrimination! By the way, don't dog parks on county property discriminate against other animals? Why just a dog park? Cats are people, er, I mean, pets, too. Where are the plans for a county maintained cat park? And the pig park? Many view horses as pets, so where is the horse park? The old golf course property on Raphel Road would be a great place for parks for all the animals we love. Or, perhaps, as we learned when we read Animal Farm in high school, some animals are more equal than others...
Buck Harmon
9:04 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
Again, I agree with you....over regulating animals is difficult to enforce...and kinda dumb...
Red Dolphin
11:23 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
ha ha love it! maybe I can walk my 45 lb tortosie there? he doesnt bite and he cant catch you any way, and his main diet is grass,
MikeC
9:19 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
I couldn't ever bring my dog to a dog park regardless of the neighborhood or convenience of the park. I exercised a very well trained and very well mannered border collie at one time. While walking the dog in a large park area where other dogs were exercised I watched as two dogs played with their owner while he threw them sticks and the dogs played very nicely with one another in the field. They truly looked as though they were having a great time under a controlling owner. Then they saw my border collie and made a bee-line toward her. First they trampled her a couple of times while she yelped in pain and frightened by the aggressiveness of the other dogs. The dogs tried to continue their attacks while my dog was able to escape and hid behind me and I was able to chase the two dogs back toward their owner. Had these two dogs been slightly more aggressive I may have witnessed the loss of my neighbor's well behaved border collie.
When I learned to drive defensive driving was instilled by my parents and driving instructors by telling me over and over again, "You don't know what the other drivers are going to do or what they are thinking." That lesson has been transferred to the dog park for me. Lesson learned.
Momof2
9:23 am on Friday, May 4, 2012
You were very lucky.
Sweetie Pie
1:56 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
You were only lucky if it was pit-type dogs that stormed your border collie. Otherwise I recommend you read Semyonova's '100 Silliest Things People Say About Dogs'-- it'll help you understand how normal dogs do things. I can't tell you how much that book changed my life...
Red Dolphin
11:28 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
99% of the time I dont care when a dog runs up to check me out but a dog with a huge head that looks like he could put as mcunb piund per square inch pressurea a great white shark. well those kind I do mind coming up to me..... I've rescued a pits once or twice,,,,,,,,,, but ever since last sumer when I got bit Im " gun shy"
Momof2
11:41 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php
Here are the stats on dangerous breeds and their predisposition to maul and maim.
Tony Solesky
5:21 am on Saturday, May 5, 2012
It was my son that was attacked inTowson. It may interest you to know that I have a long history with dogs and field trails. I wrote a free e-chronicle about what happened. www.dangerousbydefault.net you can view all the pictures. Further I offer a solution. The last chapter PET PROJECT. On the debate of difference in breed. It is amazing to me that people don't know that when you say breed you are saying inherent difference. you are literally saying whay heredity is your dog when you ask what breed it is. Breed is a man made arrangement, it is not of nature, k-9 is. Not one dog breed will be born with an instinct to reproduce to the same breed. iIf you want that breed again you have to arrange it. OTHERWISE unlike in nature where foxes mate to foxes and deer to deer, if pure breeding was left to the dogs,it would go to the dogs. It is a man made design and then so is the problem both in terms of nature and nurture.
Sweetie Pie
1:58 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Tony, this is why pit breeders have rape-racks. The mutant dogs are so aggressive that they can't even mate. When they get that excited, they just attack each other.
Tony Solesky
5:33 am on Saturday, May 5, 2012
In the most simple terms all else equal and I mean everything else equal. The same cruel owners, indifferent owners and good owners among us, will have a different outcome in bites and maulings if we all had poodles for a year and then we all had pit bulls for a year. When you say all dog breeds are the same this outcome could not be changed by us owning one entire breed or the other for that year. this is no different then if in the same accident you where to be in trucks cars or motorcycles. www.dangerousbydefault
Tony Solesky
5:41 am on Saturday, May 5, 2012
David Marks I read your book. I hope you take the time to read mine. It is being recommended by Pit Bull advocates as well as BSL supporters. The law that was just past concerning my sons case is not a BSL law but some folks out here in these forums don't read. it is nothing more then a liability law. It has not one thing to do with banning Pit Bulls.
Red Dolphin
6:23 am on Saturday, May 5, 2012
Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period.
The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).
Read study highlights »
Able Baker
5:41 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Dogsbite.org is run by a fanatic who has no expertise in either science or animal behavior. No reputable animal welfare, breeding or veterinary organization endorses breed specific legislation. Trial lawyers and PETA do.
Sweetie Pie
2:02 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Able, will you please leave the personal attacks out of it? Dogsbite org is a very reputable supplier of information, everything is checked and double-checked. Ditto AnimalPeopleNews. Every reputable scientist agrees that pit-bull type dogs are different. SPCAs aren't scientific organizations, and vets aren't behavior specialists.
Able Baker
6:14 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Reputable scientists *don't* agree. Please show me where they do. Vet organizations don't support breed specific legislation. Why should we take the word of someone who has no scientific or animal related training and whose only qualification appears to be that she was once bitten by a dog?
Tony Solesky
8:56 am on Saturday, May 5, 2012
http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2012/04/are-pit-bulls-inherently-dangerous.html
this is by a breeder who loves these dogs. By far the most balanced article you can read if you love Pit Bulls, hate Pit Bulls or are in middle including public officials. It is short and a must read
Able Baker
5:49 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
He conveniently leaves out a lot of facts from his article. Breed specific legislation and bans have generally shown to be failure in preventing dog bite injuries and fatalities. In many cases, bite injuries went up after bans. The real solution to preventing bite injuries and improving animal welfare is a well-funded, well-run animal control service. Currently the model for this is Calgary, which has record high compliance with licensing and vaccination, and an extremely low incidience of dog bite injuries.
http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2007/09/canine-legisl-2.html
Sweetie Pie
2:08 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Able Baker 5:49 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012 "He conveniently leaves out a lot of facts..."
Able, you're lying again (consciously or not). Everywhere BSL had been introduced and enforced, it's been a huge success. Dog bite related fatalities drop dramatically (in Denver now zero for twenty years already), and -- you should care about this since you love pits -- euthanization of pit-bulls no one wants also drops dramatically.
The only places BSL fails are places that give in to the kennel clubs, thus write the laws to exclude so-called 'American Staff terriers'. These are original pit bulls, no less than the APBT is. So if you allow half the FACTUAL pits to stay on the streets, then because of this loophole every pit owner suddenly has a 'Staffie'-- well, yeah, BSL will fail. This was the problem in the UK and the Netherlands, but ya know despite this, DBRF stats did drop -- just not as much as when all pits had been banned.
Able Baker
6:21 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Apparently it worked so well in the Netherlands that they're repealing it. You're employing the No True Scotsman fallacy. If Breed Specific Legislation fails, it's because it's not really Breed Specific Legislation, of course, not because BSL is fundamentally flawed.
http://dogtrainingireland.ie/blog/2008/08/03/netherlands-remove-their-ban-on-pit-bulls/
"On Monday the 9th of June Gerda Verburg the Dutch Minister of Agriculture lifted the ban on Pit Bulls in the Netherlands. The law had been in place for 15 years. The main reason for the lift was because it was found to be ineffective."
Dog bite related fatalities are zero PRETTY MUCH EVERYWHERE, because dog bite related fatalities are EXTREMELY RARE. More people are killed by lightning than dogs.
RARE MARYLAND INDEPENDENT
8:57 pm on Monday, May 7, 2012
Question to those who say it is the handler and not the breed and would not ban pit bulls and many other breeds. Do you feel the same about guns?
Pit Bulls are deadly animals that their owners cannot control. Eliminate the breed in Maryland and look at other breeds to eliminate. Make penalties so severe that no one would think of owning one. Problem solved.
Momof2
10:17 pm on Monday, May 7, 2012
Pit bulls are currently illegal in Prince George's County. Baltimore County, at the very least should address this problem in their dog parks.
Momof2
11:34 am on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
That is correct that any dog can cause damage to another person or animal. But the statistics about pit bulls and mixes show that THE BIG MAJORITY of the attacks and killings are done by pit bulls. For statistics on dangerous breeds go to www.dogsbite.org.
Able Baker
6:01 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Dogsbite is run by a fanatic that has no training in science, animal care, law or anything else that qualifies her to be recognized as an authority on dogs or dog bites. It's just a lady with a webpage and an agenda. Her largest supporter is a personal injury attorney.
Buck Harmon
6:10 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
All statistics are only as good as the folks that create them..
Sweetie Pie
2:16 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Able Baker 6:01 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012 : "Dogsbite is run by a fanatic that has no training in science, animal care, law..."
Dogsbite so happens to be an authoritative and reliable source. Given the way you phrase your criticism, I'd like to know what scientific training, animal care experience (beyond owning your pit), law training, and other things you possess.
Colleen's largest supporters include (among many others) a number of well-known authorities on animal behavior, genetics, and the behavior of the domestic dog in particular. Shouting 'she'nobody!' is kind of a weak way of trying to win your point...
Able Baker
6:23 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Says who? Says another anti-pitbull fanatic? She has a clear agenda, uses bad science and has no formal training in any animal-related field. Who are these "dog experts" that support her?
Momof2
1:21 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
The statistics for pit bulls and mixes are clear: www.dogsbite.org Landlords are responsible to know what sort of pets their tenants have and to turn away tenants with viscous pets.
Able Baker
6:03 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
They're really not, no matter how often you say it. Pardon me if I trust the opinion of animal care experts and veterinarians over a crazy lady who got bit by a dog once.
Dennis Gilpin
1:37 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Mom12. You are absolute;y correct abouit the damage a pit Bull can do. In all cases the owners were responsible by not having them on a lease or properly caged.Because of their bite only a responsible person should own them. Unfortunately , they fall into the hands of people who use the dogs aggression as a plus and put peoples lives in danger.Hate to see a lot of the Non- aggressive Pit Bulls put down because of the stupidity of irresponsible owners.
Red Dolphin
9:23 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
sorta like guns I guess. seriously so ifthats a good analogy shouldnt we make sure that thse powerful potentially dangerous "weapons" dont get i toio the hands of the wrong people ? ( not an all out ban. but back ground checks silmilar to gun owner ship)
Momof2
1:59 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Unfortunately, even responsible owners can be overpowered by their own dogs. Many attacks by pit bulls happen when the dogs is under leash by the owner.
Able Baker
5:54 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Not really. Pit bulls are relatively small dogs (60 lbs or less). There's plenty of large dogs that could much more easily overpower their owner.
Momof2
5:59 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
I am not referring to their size. It is their viscous nature and desire to attack that causes them to overpower their owners and attack.
Sweetie Pie
2:22 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Able Baker 5:54 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012 "Not really. Pit bulls are relatively small dogs (60 lbs or less). There's plenty of large dogs that could much more easily overpower their owner."
Gads, this is getting ridiculous. Now comes Able, who will likely appear in all kinds of comments sections to tell us: The mauling / killing pit bull you just reported can't possibly really be a pit bull because it weighed more than 60 lbs. So it must have been a Labrador (etc, blah-blah).
I guess Able lives inside his living room behind his pc, is unaware of what's going on out here in the real world. Pits bred up to weigh as much as 125 lbs. So-called AmBulls that weigh even more (and pit-derivatives all the same).
It's looking like most of the pit lobby is like this...
Able Baker
6:33 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
American Pit Bull Terrier is a pretty well defined breed, like it or not. Check the UKC for the breed standard. Pits are relatively small dogs, not the big hulking brute you've created in your own mind. If someone told me they were bitten by a 200 lb Laborador, I wouldn't believe them either.
AmBulls stands for AMerican BULLdog. They top out about 120 lbs. (again, check the breed standard) American Bulldogs are not pitbulls. Have people crossbred other dogs with things like Mastiffs and Rottweillers to get bigger dogs, sure. But at some point you can't call a mastiff-sized dog (which top out around 200 lbs) a pitbull (which top out around 60).
I'm not really sure where the anti-pitbull fervor comes from. Most likely from an unfulfilling home life. Gotta have something to get your blood pumping, I guess.
William Lutostanski Jr
5:02 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
We live in a litigious society to the detriment of freedom and sometimes common sense. Owners are responsible for their dogs bottom line, I don't see how a landlord has anything to do with it. Do all dogs bite ? Yes. Do bigger dogs cause more damage ? Of course they do. Is the owner still responsible for their pet ? Absolutely !
First they came for the pit bulls then the German Shepards, once its started where does it stop? Here is an interesting website pay particular attention to the BSL section that describes the cost of the ban in Prince George's County. Pretty Hefty.
http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html
In Ohio they have repealed their BSL law.
http://www.animallawcoalition.com/breed-bans/article/1495
Momof2
5:59 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
I would ask everyone to once again take a look at the statistics at Dogsbite.org. Thank you.
Red Dolphin
9:19 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
Im thinking about getting a komodo dragon for a guard,,,,,,,,,, its all in the way you raise them.
Tony Solesky
9:35 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
For me the central question is "all dog owners should be responsible" however that does that not equal that they are in Maryland or that animal advocates have ever introduced a mitigating measure or bill in the senate to address that issue. What their central goal has been is to obstruct. Therefore short of introducing a construtive bill equal to their support of holding owners accountable or mitigating measures such as supporting muzzles to protect their dogs from all of the supposed things they do because of poor ownership, the court right or wrong has mitigated it for you. By being reactive to obstruct rather then proactive to construct you get what you got here and what we have here is a failure . You are all victims of your own mismangement of your breed this is why beagle owners don't have this problem. Lastly if this opinion in the court did apply to all dogs and owners as you say you want, how would your position be different then it is now only applying to your dogs and owners?????????????????
Sweetie Pie
2:23 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Hear, hear Tony!
Buck Harmon
5:35 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Same rules apply to all dog owners, or no rules at all.
Glad to see you on some sort of roll here today SweetPie, but you are rollin in the wrong direction again...bad law is bad law, I am not a pit bull proponent, but rather adamant about the creation of bad law by elected public servants.
The stats provided on this blog are only as accurate as the person that created them. Pit Bulls are lovely animals and if you fear them you would fear other large breed dogs as well.....same rules for all...it's the only fair thing to do.
Sweetie Pie
9:34 am on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
So there's Buck stamping his feet 'same rules for all or no rules at all!'
I have no idea how old this Buck is, but he seems to have missed the point about juvenile male drivers of cars. Ah, I'm wrong! Buck got the point...but he's a socialist. He thinks all of us should pay for the statistically factual greater damage young male drivers cause. He's totally against people paying the price for their own choices and behavior.
Gads, sorry Buck! How long ago did you join the Socialist Party? And [SMILE] did you pay your dues, or did someone else pay them for you?
Buck Harmon
4:59 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Glad to see that you agree with me sweet pie, same rules apply to all...
I'll take your last comment here as surrender rather than call you a silly name or something. When you result to label or name calling your argument is lost...you no longer exist...
Sweetie Pie
12:45 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Dear Buck, you're having problems with reading comprehension. I didn't say I was a socialist -- I do think both juvenile male drivers and pit bull owners should themselves pay the costs of the extra risks they represent (the p-b owners by completely voluntary consumer choice, whereas a young boy can't help it that his brain hasn't matured yet).
'Socialist' isn't pejorative, though apparently you think it is. And since you think it is, I'm surprised you would want the costs of your own choices to be paid by others. It's one of those things you can't have both ways. Either you pay for your own choices, or you think others should be compelled to contribute. If you think others should be compelled to contribute to paying for what you choose, well, that's socialist.
If you think others should pay for your choices, but you think socialist is a dirty word, so you shouldn't have to reciprocate by paying for what they choose, I don't know what the word for that is. Narcissistic, maybe? Egocentric?
You do realize this whole discussion is because pit bull owners are utterly indignant at the idea of having to insure themselves? That they apparently feel tax payers and victims' families should bear all the costs of the catastrophic injuries their pit bulls inflict? Okay, maybe it's not socialist. Maybe it's just third-generation welfare recipient mentality -- others pay my way or else I stamp my feet!
Buck Harmon
9:48 am on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
No sweetpie, You don't seem to get it, I could care less about the details of insurance or associated costs, they are greed driven corporate entities that thrive on dumb law that is perceived to protect the public. I believe that the real problems need to be addressed at the cause of the problem, city~ county puppy mill breeding operations that seem to be profitable. The insurance racket is just that....worse than the mill breeders in my opinion. The socialist mentality would force people into compliance by making it mandatory to purchase anything...
Once again ...I accept your surrender on this topic...
Red Dolphin
9:35 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
not necessarily a survey per se but a numbers collection of data,,,,,,,,,,,,,, thata what we go by some times
Red Dolphin
9:42 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
"Can't expect a bunch of hysterical mothers and ambulance chasers to form a well considered opinion. " < QUOTE FROM ABLE i ask you do you think we only hear about pit bull attacks in the news and the other breeds go unreported? is it a" witch hunt " on Pits?
Able Baker
6:36 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Of course not. Journalists would never sensationalize a story to sell more papers/get better ratings.
Resent it all you want. I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to sue, I just question the objectivity of people who make their money from suing people. Why wouldn't personal injury attorneys support this ruling? It opens up a whole new class of people with lots of money to sue.
Red Dolphin
9:43 pm on Wednesday, May 9, 2012
i resnt the ambulance chaser reference ,,,, youwould sue in a hear beat if your kid got attacked
Odd Jobs and Such
4:24 pm on Friday, May 11, 2012
Leave the pit bulls alone and go after the people who don't clean up after their dogs. No one wants to step in that. If you don't want to carry it try this https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=3907054316599
Tony Solesky
7:09 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
It really all goes back to fundamentals no dog breeds exist in nature they are all a product of first selective breeding or as we know it intervening in the dogs natural instincts to mate to any canine and discriminating what it mates to, to preserve behavioral traits and physical conformation. If this breed did not exist and someone cited all of the problems associated to it who could say it would be fundamentally sound to create it now. Why would we preserve these characteristics in light of all of the problems from the abuse they suffer to the damage they reek on other animals and humans alike?
The actuarial facts are there are about 180 or so recognized breeds and only about 12 maul and kill and even among 7 of those breeds it is rare. Use your own head how can the American temperament test be of any value when it shows Pit Bulls score higher then Golden Retrievers even thought there is not now or has there ever been any on going mauling problem with Golden’s not to mention 148 other breeds. Any dog can bite but these are maulers so there is a specific problem the general topic of bites can not address. No science just actualities you know money where your mouth is stuff. Having a great Pit Bull like my sisters is the norm for all other dogs which tell you something in itself about this breed.
Able Baker
10:40 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Golden Retrievers don't do what now?
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-04-22/news/31383925_1_police-officers-pooch-beautiful-dog
Tony Solesky
7:09 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
Not to mention individual personal experience with a nice Pit Bull has no more value in Public safety then someone making it safely to day care without putting their child in a child’s car safety seat. It may happen often but it doesn’t make it sensible.
As a charter boat captain I can tell you the water is inherently dangerous and PFD life vest are to be worn for everyone not just people who can’t swim. Pit Bulls are a menace on the overall well being of the dog population who does not possesses biddableness as a standout behavior but rather normal dog behavior.
Able Baker
12:31 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Again, there's no evidence to support this idea that pit bulls aren't "biddable". Terriers obey commands extremely well, and pit bulls, being part of the terrier group, are no exception to that.
Tony Solesky
10:51 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Abe thank you for making my point A) it is not a full blood Golden b) when the final police report comes out it will likely prove to be a mix with a Pit Bull and c this is not an indication of an ongoing problem with first and for most full blooded Golden R which is what the temperamnet test says it is comparing full blood Pit Bulls to. again it was Pit Bull advocates who said Pit Bulls do better so we have to assume that you and some how other they the ability to identify what a Pit Bull is and apparently you can identiy or belive that althought no one can identify a Pit Bull they can correctly say it is a Golden. Can't wait for the hearing in Annapolis when you all are under real leagal scrunity.
Able Baker
12:17 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Golden Retriever - Laborador mix, which you would know if you read the article. The point is that your "safe" dog isn't safe. Just like there are bad pit bulls, there are bad Goldens.
Tony Solesky
11:58 pm on Tuesday, June 5, 2012
Average wieght of a Pit Bull 35 to 45 lbs. Golden 65 to 75 yellow lag 80 lbs or better. most common lie dog owners of mixed pits tell my dog is a lab mix. Now who is relying on the media. In Maryland Court of Appeals 15 cases reviewed since 1998 by reports from accreditied Police investigations any dog can bite but in Maryland they didnt have any dog all were Pit Bulls and now that the delgates and senators are doing research some tough questions are going to be asked? I for one am looking forward to it. I hope they are going to realize regardless of breed one free bite is a as stupid as one free car accident I think all agree on that. Likely they will make all dog owners liable for any dog and or breed that bites. That said they can't just turn their back on what has come to light before the court as it pertains to Pit Bulls who have at least in Maryland singled themselves out above all of the other any dog can bit arguements.
Able Baker
12:23 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
I'm having trouble making sense of what you're writing. No wonder you have to give away your book for free.
1. What is an "accredited police investigation"? How does that differ from a routine police investigation?
2. They looked into 15 dog bite cases, of which all were pit bulls. Are you making the claim that there have only been 15 dog bite cases since 1998 and all of them were pit bulls? Or were 15 chosen at random and all happened to be pit bulls? Or did they just select pit bull bite cases?
3. Agreed. Dog owners, regardless of breed, should be responsible for the actions of their dog. At the risk of making the personal injury attorneys even more gleeful at the prospect of an ever greater number of people to sue, the standard needs to be equal for all dogs.
Tony Solesky
12:57 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
You are correct I am a poor speller but I am otherwise quite articulate and very well versed on this issue. My e-book is free because it is a philanthropic pursuit. It has been professionally edited so you will have no problems.
No what I am referring to is the fact that unlike a normal snap and release dog bite that may be investigated by animal control Mauling deploy multiple agencies and the injury level gets a full blown police investigation. In the last 15 years the only cases serious to make it before the court have been Pit Bull cases. As a result the breed has singled itself out and the court could only rule on what was before it. This means simply that the agreed acknowledgment that any dog can bite has nothing to do with mauling and obviously in the last 15 years the association of Pit Bulls to them. These investigations lead to law suits which lead to very accurate insurance actuaries. Regardless of using that information as a bridge to insurance it still shows the monetary impact of these breeds against all others in Maryland. This alos means the tax payer foots the bill for all of the responding agencies and further if they don’t have medical or homeowners the tax payer picks up that tab also.
Tony Solesky
1:03 pm on Wednesday, June 6, 2012
What do you mean no evidence? Terrier is an Italian word and the reason these dogs where outcrossed with Terriers has everything to do with both the style of attack and the fact that the AKC breed standard for Terriers tells you they are not tolerant of other animals. Are you saying that somehow if triggered to attack they change their breed instinct to adjust for humans? Ever heard of friendly fire??????????