Windriver: I can only tell you what county police have repeatedly told me.

County law allows for the cameras to operate year-round from 6 a.m. to 8 p.m.

Police Chief Jim Johnson has repeatedly said that the cameras are on even when schools are closed because children and others use the grounds year-round.

only for revenue enhancement of the locals, any other explanation is pure fiction.

Gee, isn't that what speed bumps are for ? The ones on Dutton ave. work great and theres no school ! This would alert drivers better. Oh that would make sense too.

Windriver: To prevent baddie drivers like you from speeding. Learn to drive and adhere to the rules of the road.

Mike: We inquired with Councilman Marks about speed bumps on Seven Courts road. It was NOT an option available, due to the size and nature of Seven Courts.

During the school year there is a Officer by Westchester school running radar. Dont see him during the summer break. Hmmm coincidence ?

To generate revenue... why else?

Tim is probably at home collecting unemployment lol

Best comment yet !

But these tools of enforcement have a track record of failure...hell, 4 of the units don't work right out of the gate. Whats to say they are fair and accurate?
Huge difference from those other violations mentioned....
They are also a fire hazard...

You don't speed? Really? You typed that with a straight face? Were your fingers crossed? You've never found yourself driving through an unfamiliar part of town when suddenly the speed limit drops and it takes you a little while to slow down? Lemme guess, you instantly slam on your brakes the moment you see the speed limit sign is lower. Oh yeah, and you also notice EVERY speed limit sign while driving in all conditions.

Sounds like Adam needs driver re-education. It's not difficult to ascertain the speed limit of ANY road, within 5 mph. It just takes a little common sense.
I rarely speed, only when it is required (to keep up with the healthy flow of traffic).

We're not all bad drivers in Maryland. Oh wait, I'm not a native.

Buck: A track record of failure - maybe thats why they give you TWELVE mph over before they go off?

That would be a lame excuse for inaccurate equipment that is owned by for profit corporations...

While I agree with you on the point that it is a tax on lawbreakers, it's unfortunate that we have to put up with this crap because Americans are getting so ignorant that they won't slow down going through a school zone. I TRY not to speed but we are all human(It happens). Where I have to laugh at you is where you say it will help keep your taxes down. HAHAHAHAHA!! If there were any inclination that OMalley was going to stop devising taxes out of thin air, that argument might hold water. But I just heard that he's now focusing on implementing a digital download tax. If he could figure out a way to tax the air we breathe or the food we eat ( oh wait, he already did that!) well, you know he will tax anything he can. And then disavow the fact that Maryland Millionares are moving out of the state by the droves. OweMalley is a disgrace, God I hope he doesn't get the Democratic nomination in 2016

Accurately put, Dennis. You saved me a lot of typing by taking the words right out of my mouth. Sooner or later folks, like other Tim, will see the bigger picture. Until there is some political balance in our beautiful state, that is Maryland, our taxes will continue to increase out of control. What really blows my mind is how O'Malley was able to get re-elected on the platform that his opponent was the tax and spender. When we knew all along it was O'Malley who never met a tax/fee he didn't like. The joke was on me. I had faith in my fellow Marylanders. The majority of them let me down. How stupid or out of touch can voters be. How sad.

Ah... Wait until you are issued a ticket for speeding and it wasn't you. That happened to my husband. They sent the ticket to him because the camera caught his tag, not the one of the guy speeding past him. That is NOT an uncommon occurrence.

I do. Hearing you terrible drivers on your cell phones driving 15+ over QQ about these cameras definitely makes me want to thank him.

I don't agree with Quirk on much, but I'm all aboard on this one.

holy what is this, someone else with responsibility for their actions behind the wheel?!?!?!?

Yeah, I'd rather not die or kill others while driving. 12mph should be a jailable offense. Virginia has it kind of right with arresting people doing 20mph+ over.

Well, thing is, the reason (I think) there's such a liberal range on the cameras is to effectively rule out margin of error.
If you're going 13 over, there's no question you are speeding.

People should be happy they don't lose points over it, honestly. I am (I got one last month for the first time in like 5 years or so)

I was driving on 29 South at 9pm when there was no construction, Not in front of a school and it was only 4mph over the 50 posted limit. the reason I know what my speed was.. i had set it on cruise control knowing there was a speed camera. I wasn't even close to 60 to 62..does anyone know if they check the each each ticket out before they send it or is it an automatically issued??

You are wrong Tim... if these camera's require built in failure rates they can't possibly be accurate... You right to travel freely exceeds the right of any government to interfere...

What lawmaker would ever make a 40mph school zone speed limit? And isn't 1 MPH over the speed limit and therfore worthy of a ticket? So some people admit to speeding (breaking the law) but not over the point of having to pay for breaking that law right?

Buck: You sound like a libertarian on this. The law doesn't agree, however.

However suggesting that any radar mechanism that requires a built in margin of error is completely inaccurate is patently false - and you know it. All radar mechanisms require calibration.

Agree..

Westminster has data that shows the opposite, they cause more problems, that why they are doing away with cameras, also Arizona is doing the same.

I like that. Maybe they could offer a Groupon a Living Social deal, get a $40 speed camera ticket for $20.

(For the humor impaired, these posts are meant to be humorous)

Your attempt at humor is cynical. What has happened to our sense of community. Your hyper individualism is what is wrong with this country.

Nah, my attempt at humor was just that, humorous. Lighten up a bit. I could (and have) write volumes about what has happened to our sense of community, but this is not he time or place...

I thought it was clever Evets lol!

and Andy, I disagree with what you said about "Hyper-Individualism"...Individualism is not the problem, it is the increasing Collectivism that I notice that is destroying the Community...I constantly see groups of people trying, and many time successfully, to force their views and desires on others for the "Common Good"...

don't worry, they are doing their due diligence over on Silver Spring. I passed two cop cars lying in wait on my way to pick up the little one at 1pm. Not 5 minutes later on the return trip they had snagged two suckers.

This is for revenue, so please just say it...then the debate is over!! let's just call it a tax on speeding drivers, People would support that.

I get taxed for smoking...and that's not even breaking the law!! so let's just put these cameras up and call them Speed Tax Camera's...we all no the government needs more revenue. Why tax people for their success in business and industry (Income Tax)? let's start taxing people for their Illegal behavior!!

I don't see the distinction between running red lights/stop signs and Speeding....all are traffic violations and therefore breaking the law...aren't they??

The distiction between running red lights and stop signs and speeding is that running a red light or stop sign DRAMATICALLY increase the chances of a severe accident and people losing their lives. As for speeding, like I said, today's cars are BUILT to go faster and be easier to control. It really depends where you are speeding and the situation generally. You are looking at this in black and white which is, again, without critical thinking or distinction between different circumstances. Are you going to tell me that going 15mph over the speed limit on a road you've been down a million times when all other traffic is either thinned out or going about the same speed is the same as someone running a red light or stop sign and potentially killing someone? I really hope not. This isn't a black and white issue, it's something that should be dealt with depending on the area, street and frequency of accidents in said area. It should NOT be a blanket statement that punishes everyone for the actions of a few.

Let me ask you something. Have you or anyone you know ever downloaded music off the internet? Taped your favorite shows on TV for later viewing? Neglected to shovel snow and remove ice from your sidewalk in the winter? All against the law, is there no distinction? The third one could cost you a lawsuit and a very expensive one.

Looking at this in black and white is not the right way to look at it nor does it even make a whole lot of sense.

OK Evets, point taken, but who's to say those universities and newspapers (ESPECIALLY newspapers, c'mon, the media? The bought and paid for media?) weren't paid or told to say those things? This whole speed camera issue is an agenda being pushed through by any means necessary, except any means that would make sense, of course.

I really don't care too much about speeding unless the person speeding is FLYING past other drivers and literally blowing people's doors off OR it is in a bad area to be doing so such as narrow residential streets with street parking on one or both sides. There is a time and place for speeding and a time a place for slower driving. It's just people don't know the difference or just don't care.

I am not in favor of running red lights, stop signs (when they are busy, empty ones, rolling through? so what? provided you at least slow down to at least 5-10mph. I would be against ignoring them completely, absolutely. I am against tailgating as well, it's completely obnoxious.

Only in a perfect world would everyone follow the rules, but in the case of traffic laws, too many laws are outdated or don't make sense anymore. Traffic laws need an overhaul and that is one of the problems here. If young drivers are this bad, maybe they need better instruction in driving school. Most accidents are caused by drunk/intoxicated drivers, cell phones and not paying attention anyway. Speeding causes some accidents I'm sure, but it's probably not even in the top 5.

It's funny you say that about bikers. There were a couple of bikers occupying an entire CAR lane today that I passed and yelled out my window at them to "Be Careful!" since it's illegal for them to ride their bikes in the middle of the traffic lanes like that. I don't know, I guess I give off this impression that I'm some kind of monster behind the wheel of a car, but it's not true. I believe in common sense and I am against things that don't make sense.

As far as I know, it is illegal to tape a show (under copyright laws) off the TV because you are reproducing someone else's work without their permission. It's the same with music. EVERYONE breaks the law every day, I would bet on it because we all make exceptions based on what we consider serious, dangerous or whether it even matters or not in the grand scheme of things. We ALL do it, yet we make the technology to break the law. VCRs, DVD recorders, TIVO, fast cars, we allow people to have guns and weapons even though they are used to kill people, we give computers the ability to download ANYTHING off the internet and even though I am not personally into this sort of thing, you can find illegal porn on the internet quite easily, I imagine. It's like we live in a world of laws and entrapment, some foreign world where nothing makes sense and 80% of people are crazy.

I don't think speed limits should be eliminated. Raised, absolutely, significantly on the highways especially, but not in every area, only when sensible.

Evets: you said bicyclists may, legally, ride in any part of a travel lane on a Maryland road.
Not true. Here is the law:
A person riding a bicycle shall ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable and safe, except when:
Making or attempting to make a left turn;
Operating on a one-way street;
Passing a stopped or slower moving vehicle;
Avoiding pedestrians or road hazards;
The right lane is a right turn only lane; or
Operating in a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane.

Evets, I couldn't agree with you more about the rights of bicyclists. I was just pointing out the one thing you said ("They may, legally, ride in any part of a travel lane") that may cause confusion and potential danger to other riders. Bicyclists may have rights, but a lot of drivers don't have any sense.

@ Mike... Just because cars are built better, and can achieve higher speeds and shorter braking distances, doesn't mean that they are safer necessarily...the biggest factor in most "Accidents" is human error...so your premise is kinda wrong... just because cars "Brake better" doesn't mean we should allow higher speed limits...today's drivers have more distractions than ever...between loud radios, smart phones, gps units, and dazzling new cockpits with lots of shiny buttons to push, many people are paying LESS attention to the road. so raising speed limits may not be the best option....

Other Tim, we've lived in a world where "everyone only obeys the laws they agree with" since the dawn of time, I would imagine. The issue is there are too many laws as well as there being too many laws that don't make sense or are outdated.

I don't care if people speed so long as they are not endangering the lives of others in the process, no. The spirit of laws is to protect people and save lives, but if there are no people being put into danger, then there's no problems. Also, if I drove any speed I deemed safe without regard for circumstances or location, I'd probably have so many tickets I'd be without a license. See, you guys do think I'm some kind of monster in a car. It's kind of comical, really.

Yes, speed limits should be raised especially on the beltways and major highways. Why? Because there's no reason not to, these are roads that are MEANT to allow you to drive fast. I don't think we'll ever see a 100+ MPH speed limit, but you know how many accidents they have on the autobahn in Germany where there is no speed limit? Deaths have decreased by over 70% since 1990, where the advisory speed limit is 80mph, but the left lane, you can drive as fast as you want. What's the problem with that? You want to drive slower, stay to the right. You want to explore the limits of your car, stay to the left. It works for Germany and has for decades. Otherwise, there is NO POINT in even MAKING cars that go that fast in the US.

Mike your Mother has been driving since she has been a baby? In answer to your question, yes she is an unsafe driver and she is very lucky she hasn't gotten pulled over. Anyone that goes over the speed limit excessively is an unsafe driver so 96% of the drivers are unsafe drivers sometimes.

Mike I hope no one you care about is injured or killed by a driver only going 15 miles over the speed limit. As far as those two cops too bad you didn't post there car numbers so they could be reported for not doing their job or were you going to fast to notice. Who are you endangering at 2:50am? What about the person that is walking home because they drank too much and crossing the street as you speed by. What about somebody who is out walking their dog because their dog had to go at a crazy hour in the morning? What about and animal crossing the road? There could be a lot of people & animals you are endangering. Will you be happy if you hit a person or animal?

I was a passenger in a car accident that was the drivers fault, he was going 5mph before the first impact. I broke all the bones in my face, one major surgery and four other surgies later I still have breathing and sinus problems I didn't have before, and .my legs were jammed under the dash board at my knees, because they weren't broken nothing was done for them for almost 6 months and by then too late. I have metal plates in my face and diffuculty walking and the driver wasn't speeding. The accident happen in 1987, a week after two girls were in an accident that one of them died. They weren't speeding either. It takes one second to distract a driver and no matter the speed, the road, the weather, the results can be fatal or last you the rest of your life. When I am in somebody's car and they aren't careful or even when I am upset and not being careful I pull out the pictures taken of me on Christmas Day & three days later my birthday and remind people to please be careful because if your not the result could be awful.

Hi Steve I think the speed bumps are a better idea over circles because the road isn't wide enough. I have seen a lot of people run the 4 way stop sign further down Seven Crts and even seen people go into the circle without looking.
I agree with you about visibility being a big part of the problem by the school if you are coming from Joppa Rd direction, from the school side of Seven courts it's speeding in my opinion.
The lady killed in January was driver error and the lady killed 3 years ago, I think thats the right amount of time, by were the flea market used to be was decided that it was neither of their fault. It was due to poor visibility because of the illegally parked cars. The illeagally parked cars was the biggest reason the flea markets stopped.

Personally I don't care for speed bumps... My main issue is how much it slows down emergency equipment,..In an emergency situation, seconds are very important...and Fire apparatus and ambulances must slow down almost to a stop at these speed humps, if you throw a half dozen or so speed hump along seven courts, it would slow their response to my neighborhood considerably...

the flip side is that I find that unsafe drivers typically just hit the speed bumps relatively fast, then accelerate quickly to "Make up lost time"...

I personally don't want any more stop signs, circles or speed humps...one thing I think MAY work is to merge the 2 lanes sooner, and create a median in the middle of the road... narrowing roads tend to slow drivers, and the median could provide a safe half-way point for pedestrians trying to cross....just a thought

Matter of fact, going 50 down Joppa road from Seven courts to Harford is fine too. The posted speed limit should be 45mph along there, then lower to 40 after crossing Harford. I swear, some of you act like today's cars can barely hold themselves together down the road. It's a miracle they can even stop or steer at all. Ridiculous. Use common sense, cars are better, so speed limits should change as a result.

But they are still LAWS and they are suposed to be followed. I am not perfect I have gone a little over the speed limit but as soon as I realize it I slow down because I don't want to injure anyone.
There are three crosswalks on Seven Courts Drive one on each side of the circle and at Joppa & Seven Courts. Maybe you need to pay attention more to whats around you because you DON'T see everything around you.

@ Mike, I never said Seven Courts should be one lane, or that a median should run the entire length of the Road... 7 courts transitions from 2 lanes to 1 lane in the area out front of seven oaks elem...problem is that the merge isn't very well defined...if you travel the road frequently, you will notice many "interpret" it differently....

My suggestion/idea would be to mark the transition VERY CLEARLY with painted lines and perhaps have the merge be complete PRIOR to the school crossing area...and also create a safe crossing area, with a crosswalk, and a median strip(At the crossing area only) where pedestrians can stop and wait half way to ease the crossing...

again just a thought, but I wanted to clarify it for you because it didn't seem like you understood what I had suggested

I appreciate that clarification because I did misunderstand. See, here's my problem with that.
The place you are talking about, the "transition", is generally treated by all drivers as two lanes up until there are parked cars on the side of the road (coming from Joppa) OR, if you're coming from the circle, to be honest, I and everyone else treat the road as a two lane road after Pinedale even though there are no white dividing lines for lanes. EVERYONE considers it two lanes and will pass other cars as if it is two lanes and to be honest, should be two lanes in this area anyway. You don't see cars riding down the center of the road through here, they either pick one side or the other. It's generally common knowledge that it's treated as a two lane road at that point, more so on the "trees" side of the road than the other. There is a downhill, then an uphill to Seven Oaks. Problem with your idea is that this is an easy place to cross the road because you can clearly see both sides of traffic (crossing at the bottom of both hills right in the center). This road is meant to be wide in this area because the volume of traffic increases at that point and this is also where people generally "pick their lane" and average about 40-45mph.

Now, there is already a small median right in front of Pinedale road (I think it's called Pinedale, Geez, you'd think I'd know since I live here, but I remember places visually a lot better than actual road names.. my brain works funky that way.)

So, what is wrong with using that median strip to cross the street? I've done it, I've seen plenty of others use that small strip to cross the street. The median could be made bigger, but I think it is there more to divide the traffic properly since the road narrows slightly after this place (going away from Joppa). This median acts more as a short divider, but could it be extended or made a little bigger, sure.

As far as interpretation, as soon as you pass Pinedale, everyone treats it as a two lane road that I have seen. The cars pick a side to drive on immediately and stay there. To drivers, there is an invisible dividing line between lanes. At least, that is what I constantly see at this area that runs from Pinedale all the way down to Hapsburg court where the dividing lines are actually painted on the road. I think the lines should be painted on the road earlier, people treat it as a two lane road anyway even to the point of passing each other. I don't really see any confusion with drivers about this area, it's just a given that it's a two lane road at that point without any dividing lines. People overtake (safely) and drive as though the lane dividing lines are there. I've never seen any problems with this area at all, so at least in the minds of the drivers, the interpretation seems to be quite clear. I pass along here all the time once I know which side the drivers in front have chosen. They either immediately get in the "right" lane or the "left" lane.

... however, they never drive right down the center of the road like they are confused about whats going on. It seems, at least to me, as an unwritten "law" that it's a two lane road as soon as you hit that downhill after Pinedale and everyone seems fine with that driving wise. Once you get to Hapsburg, people are already in their lanes. I don't really see the confusion you speak of with interpretation. Everyone I see seems to interpret it exactly the way I just described, it automatic at this point.

I would certainly paint the white lines on the road after Pinedale going down the hill because people use it as two lanes anyway. Maybe the concern is then a four lane highway that kids must cross from Seven Oaks, but it's essentially a four lane highway already.

I do want to apologize for misunderstanding your response and for my response, so I am sorry. :) I do, still however, believe that the BEST way to make this area of road better is to put a traffic light in front of Seven Oaks that turns on at 8am and shuts off at 6pm (binks amber) that includes a crosswalk the ONLY one on the whole street) and crossing guards during hours school lets out. Does anyone else here see how many problems this solves that we've been talking about in this thread? Pretty much all of them! Plus, it gets rid of the camera. This is the sensible solution and I don't understand why more people aren't behind that solution. That's it, right there. The solution.

The other thing is that the place where the median is in front of Pinedale gives you a GREAT view of traffic coming from both ways, a very CLEAR view. Why is more median necessary? It's not like people drive over this median, I've walked over to it just for fun several times and hung out there for a few minutes. It's small because you have seven courts slightly narrowing, there are now houses and parked cars on both sides and the median can't be much bigger or you'd be obstructing Pinedale Road. Are you saying you want to extend the median down the hill a little? Well, that makes it harder to see traffic coming from the circle because of the road elevation lowering. I don't think there's much more you can do with that median strip and furthermore, why would anyone need it bigger? It's a safe place to stand and a safe halfway point to cross the street. As a matter of fact, the entire area between the circle and Pinedale is perfectly safe to cross because visibility of all traffic is so good and the road is straight with no hills. The circle itself is even a good place to cross the street (I do it all the time). This stretch of seven courts, aside from the Weis end, is the straightest, levelest part of the whole road and the easiest part of the whole street to cross and it's EASY. I guess I miss your point about the median, although it is a good idea on paper, I don't see how it could really work in this case.

I'm all for white lines painted on the road to officially make it a two lane drive after Pinedale since that's how all the drivers I ever see treat it anyway AND, the whole point of this thread was about the speed and how it's such a huge problem even though there's no evidence of that. People do speed on seven courts, but it's not causing problems, injuries, accidents or anything of the sort and never has! It's a flat out non-issue. The issue is that Seven Oaks doesn't even feel like a school zone to me because it's behind the retirement building (or whatever that building is that I never go to or pay much attention to).

Seven Oaks needs a traffic light, period. One that turns itself on during relevant hours and off at 6pm and just blinks amber. IMO, just a blinking amber light would slow people down a little bit even at night along this street because people would know there's a crosswalk there. It may just be a few mph, but people would think twice before flooring it through a blinking amber light in this area.

Seven courts needs a crosswalk and there's no better place for one than right here along with this light. People were complaining about children crossing the street here, right? Remember? Crying about the safety of the children? There's your solution along with two crossing guards. Problem solved.

Where's the issue now? The median is now an issue further up the street? C'mon guys. I have ADD and I'm having trouble keeping up with you people. lol

Speeding on Seven Courts is only a non-issue until someone gets hurt, or killed.

I myself had to avoid injury by some broad in an SUV making a left turn off of Seven Courts (I was running, and 2/3 of the way across the street when she turned) at about 25 mph while having her cell phone attached to her ear.

Speeding is definitely an issue. Tons of foot traffic during the spring -fall months. It's a residentially used road.

Saying it's a non-issue just because there aren't more casualties isn't an accurate argument because it doesn't factor in the behavior of others.

Now, I am all for options besides speed cameras, if they are viable. I was happy they put the circle in when they did - if nothing else, it was entertaining watching Maryland drivers head explode at seeing one and not knowing what to do.

Wow Tim. "Some Broad in a SUV?"

Did you just step off the set of Guys and Dolls? Stay classy Perry Hall.

Jason:
Are you really worried about the comment "broad"?
She deserves a far worse comment then that, factoring in the fact a) she wasn't paying attention and b) she nearly hit me, a runner. She didn't even stop to check on me - just continued barreling down Gunpowder Rd.
I was too busy jumping across the rest of the road to notice specifics. If I had, I'd have gotten her license plate.

In fact, truth coming out - it nearly ended up killing me anyway - but what ended up happening turned out to be inevitable anyway - she just accelerated the process a bit unnaturally.

Hahahahahahahaha ! Sometimes a broad is just a broad.

Um Tim? She almost hit you because she was talking on her cell phone and wasn't paying attention. Speed had nothing to do with it. You guys are just hell bent on making speeding this huge issue, aren't you? lol

The Mythbusters test I posted in another thread showing that talking on cell phones impairs you MORE than alcohol tells the whole story. It wasn't speeding, it was the damn phone she was talking on. Place blame where it's supposed to be, not where you'd prefer it be. Let's be fair.

"Speeding on Seven Courts is only a non-issue until someone gets hurt, or killed."

Fun! Let's apply that comment to other things. Stairwells are only a non issue until someone falls down one and gets killed. Maple baseball bats shattering all over the field are only a non issue until someone gets killed. Mailboxes are only a non issue until someone runs into one on a bike and gets killed.

Yeah, pull that argument out. It makes no sense. Cars themselves make everything involving cars issues and potential issues. So you're saying we should remove mailboxes BEFORE someone runs into one and gets killed and remove those stairwells too, hurry up! Someone might die on one! Yeah, what you said is just as ridiculous. :)

How long has seven courts drive existed? 25 years? Two deaths and neither one were related to excessive speed, but then you say something like "it's only a non-issue until someone gets hurt or killed". PLEASE! That's a ridiculous thing to say. There is risk of injury in using a stove, should we remove those too before someone gets stuck in an oven?

Sorry, but that was just a silly comment to make. Made me laugh out loud.

So Tim, are you then implying that if ONE single person dies on seven courts in 30 years of existence due to speeding, that makes it a huge issue? Accidents happen all the time, you can't just push the panic button every time an accident happens. Geez, if we did that, we wouldn't even have cars or planes for that matter.

... but the FACTS, the actual facts are that in 25 years or however long this road has existed, no one has ever been hit or killed by a car on this road due to excessive speed. Therefore, it's a non-issue. If it ever happened, it would be an anomaly, but surely, people like you would overreact just as you are now and nothing has even happened. There is NONE, ZERO, evidence that speeding on SCD is an issue, much less a huge issue. Talking on cell phones while driving is a huge issue, complain about that. Rail on those people. All you want to do is think of reasons to blame speeding for everything. That's called bad science. Draw your conclusion, then twist information to make it fit your opinion. Bad science, Tim.