The reason people are so focused on traffic is (1) because the State Highway Adm. has already said that is a failing intersection without Foundry Row, (2) because Senator Bobby Zirkin is concerned about the traffic, (3) because the General Assembly is concerned over the traffic, (4) because our Governor is concerned over the traffic and (5) because Greenberg Gibbons will not release a complete and adequate traffic study and he tried to block Sen. Zircon and the General Assembly from getting a traffic study. What is he trying to hide? Also, this project will put about 6,000 more cars on Reisterstown Road everyday and the people who travel that road are already feed up with it.

Shirley, you say that there needs to be a traffic study, then you quote numbers and facts about the impact of the Wegmans/Foundry Row project on traffic (how many cars will be put on the road because of the project, etc). If there has not been any study or an adequate study, where are you getting these numbers from?

LOL!

Dustin, I am glad Patch finally started looking at the real picture. Now that you are telling the truth, they are trying to say you are in bed with Brown and Kimco. How does it feel? Sorry Senator Zirkin for spelling your name wrong in my last comment. The fingers engaged before the brain.

As we mentioned in the article, the people in the interview were literally approached on the street at random, and this is what they told us. Our coverage has been nothing but balanced, and we have Kimco and Brown on the record numerous times stating their opinions. I'd be happy to point you in the direction of some of our previous coverage if you'd like.

Let's find out what all the traffic problems are first before we put 400,000 sq. ft. of retail on that corner. Let's fix those problems if we can and see if that project is feasable with the existing infrastructure.

A traffic study has been completed. Problems have been assessed. Solutions have been determined. The Foundry Row developer will pay for road improvements.

When Solo Cup was there, they made their shift changes so as not to be in peak hour traffic. Foundry Row will put 600 more employee cars on the road than worked at Solo, not to mention the amount of cars for the shoppers. If someone in your family had the oportunity to work for MFG. payscale or Wegman's payscale, they would be jumping up and down for MFG.

Whether a mfg job pays more than working at Wegmans has no bearing on my arguments in favor of Wegmans and Foundry Row.

In case you didn't realize it this isn't China, Mexico or the wholly owned US govt.GM corporation. Therefore the chance of some type of manufacturing coming to the Solo site is about as good as a profitable steelmaker coming to Sparrows Point! In fact if you didn't notice it we gave away most if not all manufacturing when we started paying the unskilled workers who push those buttons about $85/hr.? So while there are many issues with a "traffic study" the probability of having a big factory is not one of them. Besides the factory might prefer the soon to be x-Safeway or x-Giant sites they will be vacant within a year of the Wegman's project adding more blight to the area with more empty square footage. But don't panic yet because we could always get M.O.M. to call another "special session" and take the returned state owned slot machines and place them at both sites? And just think about it? Those revenues could then air condition all of our schools (as promised) and repair their crumbling infrastructure? So where does it all end................."Politics" aint it grand!

Not a fair comparison. Retail uses draw far more people in and out than office product. Plus, Metro Centre wll utilize the in-place subway system and Interstate 795 without clogging up the already-congested Reisterstown Road. I have to laugh at all of these comments which are obviously written from the same company. We don't believe you!! You are about to be saddled with a $15 million white elephant. Show us the trafifc study already.

See, now you are starting to understand why we just don't need anymore traffic! Metro Center and the Mall have already been approved, but Foundry Row hasn't, so we need to stop it before they throw any more traffic in the mix.

since I couldn't reply to the submittions below I am forced to reply to my own statement-this is to bigggc-I'm not with any company so I guess you can stop laughing-I'm a stay at home Mom. So with that theory out the window. Lets deal with your comment of 795 and the subway systems-Metro Centre to the corner of Painters Mills where the end of Solo is located is 6/10th of a mile. It truly makes little difference the same roads and same Metro system will be used. Unless of course the 250 room hotel slated for the Metro centre is only going to house people coming from Baltimore on the Metro and the 1700 residents won't own cars, nor will any of the CCBC students or users of the library. And the 300,000 square feet of retail space at the Metro won't bring any vehicles down Reisterstown Road or Painter Mill Road. It is a fair comparison, I've been driving those roads for 10 years.

To Shirley Supik's comment below...exactly when will General Growth and Kimco begin working on the mall? Kimco hasn't brought the intended Rite Aid to the Frank's Craft location farther up Reisterstown Road-that's been boarded up for years. It's an eye sore and a hazard.

There's a link on the side of the page to that story, as well as a lot of our other coverage.

Rona did you see the teenagers at the intersection of OM Blvd and Reisterstown Road in front of Safeway on the day when it was 104 degrees handing out water with Say No to Solo signs to passing cars?? Shirley Supik should be ashamed of herself having those kids out there that day.

Chuck, You need to update your thinking. Haven't you read all the recent articles about mfg. coming back to Maryland? We don't have to mfg. "smelly" things anymore. There are high tech companies out there, making "GREEN" things for our future. Don't be so narrowminded.

We don't have to manufacturer "smelly" things anymore? I sure wish you'd tell that to some of the current manufacturers in the area - I am regularly assaulted by the smells from their manufaturing plants. I don't want more of the same, and we don't know what manufacturer might move into the area. We know what we are getting with Wegmans/Foundry Row.

I went to Towson and Lutherville yesterday to go clothes shopping for my kids. Money that could have been spent in Owings Mills, too bad the only options are Target and Walmart. I don't go to the mall, it isn't safe.

What else does OM have to offer: Stevenson University and a branch of BCCC, with athletics at the Uni and arts at the Uni and JCC, the new library, a couple of mega-movies... come on, that's a beginning!

Don't take my word for it, ask the people who work at the Giant right next door to the proposed Foundry Row or the people who work at Safeway, or the businesses along the Reisterstown Road Corridor how they feel about Foundry Row. You and these others don't want to hear it. Go back and read Dustin's article again. You may not want the opposition, but it is here. And it is bigger and stronger than you can imagine.

People at that Giant are worried about their jobs because Giant's prices are higher, the stores smaller, the selection less, the quality less, and if I dare say dirtier.

I personally haven't run into anyone other that your followers Ms. Supik who are against Foundry Row. 4 of my kids go to different schools-no one I've spoken to at any of the schools are against Foundry Row, nor are any of my friends, members of my house of worship (located in Reisterstown) nor my gym, where I get my hair cut and nails done. My husband and I have even been privy to over hearing conversations in local restaurants in the last couple of months about people who can't wait for Wegmans.

Absolutely, Chuck. You are talking the safety of our citizens and communities. All that glitters is not gold and to make decisions based on greedy, I want everything thinking is negligent and dangerous. You already take your life in your hands on that road. A traffic study will be able to save lives in the long run.

Enough paralysis by analysis, because that is the real goal of this group. SHA has studied this intersection for 10 years due to the expected impact from the mall and Metro Centre, and we finally have the opportunity to get the improvements done due to private funding from Foundry Row. Anyone that thinks another traffic study will suddenly satisfy the opposition has another thing coming.

Shirley, you and "Vote No" keep saying we need to study the issues before deciding. The issue has been studied. There has been an economic impact study and a traffic study (interestingly, completed by the same company that produced a traffic study for Metro Center). The traffic study produced viable solutions to the increased traffic.

Shirley: I don't see a bunch of hateful comments, just people expressing an opinion different than yours. To address some of your comments-
1. I don't know where you've gotten your info about how many workers cars will be at Foundry Row, so I can't comment except to say your numbers don't sound correct.
2. Everyone has agreed the existing infrastructure won't support the new project. That is why the developer plans to make changes to the roads.
3. While employees at Giant may not be able to see the benefit of Foundry Row, the owners of the Giant shopping center (St. Thomas) obviously do, because they have expressed their support of the project. I believe they also proposed joining their parking lot to Foundry Row's.

Actually, it just seems to be a one way thing - Mr Brown fighting GG.

For KW and Chuck, There were 2500 workers at Solo. There will be 3100 at Foundry Row. Already 600 more than Solo and they worked on 3 non peak shifts. Foundry Row is one third the size of Huntvalley. Taking one third of the cars that shop at Huntvalley, we are talking between 3,000 & 5,000 shoppers at Foundry Row. Add them up. Mr. Gibbons supplied the #'s for Solo workers and his future employees.The traffic report that you refer to KW, Mr. Gibbons will not release and and an Administrative Law Judge threw out his traffic report when Senator Bobby Zirkin went for a traffic study request stating that Mr. Gibbons report was not a true and accurate portrayal of the traffic. Mr. Gibbons did the same thing at the Greenspring Station. One more thing, KW. You give me too much credit when you use the word "followers". In the last 2 weeks alone, we have signed 4,000 people who object to Foundry Row. I do not have a "following". I have well informed intelligent people who understand what is at stake. People who are sick of dirty politics. People who have had enough big business shoved down their throats without their voice being heard.

Shirley, I, too, am sick of dirty politics, including those practiced by your Vote No group. Your group is no better than the corrupt politicians you claim to be fighting against. Vote No deceives people, building sham support. If you were truly about integrity, your group would make it clear that signing your petition is akin to saying "No" to Wegmans. Tell people that Wegmans has refused to go to the mall for 7 years. Tell them that the Foundry Row developer has proposed solutions to the traffic. Tell them that the developer could build other projects (right now, without the need for a zoning change), like an office park, that would worsen rush hour traffic. Tell people the -whole- truth, so they can decide for themselves.

But, you won't do that because then you might not have all the support you and the big business(es) whose cause you trumpet need/claim.

Souixsie, when Solo was there they had 3 shifts and none of them were at peak traffic. They spaced them between the peaks to avoid traffic problems. They even brought in most of their trucks at night. Are you saying there is no affordable housing in O.M.?

Foxleigh Management is the company who manages Greenspring Station. Just look at Greenspring Station's website.

Maryland, I wasn't refering to Greenberg Gibbons with Greenspring Station. I was refering to the company that did their traffic study. Neither Gibbons, Glazer or Brown are qualified to do a traffic study. That has to be done by a company. In both the Foundry Row traffic study and the one done for the Greenspring Station, an Administration Law Judge threw them out for not giving a true and accurate assessment of the amount of traffic in those areas.

Chuck, when I speak to the people on the street, when I tell them that it is not just a Wegman's but a 400,000 sq. ft. shopping center at that corner, they usually say, "Oh, no. NO MORE TRAFFIC." Or they will say, "We don't need another shopping center. Fix the Mall and put Wegman's there." I can only tell you that most people I have talked to believe the mall should be fixed first before adding another shopping center, especially there.

"Would you like to sign this petition to limit the amount of traffic on Reisterstown Road and would you like a free snow cone" said one of Say No to Solo representatives in front of Safeway a couple of weeks ago.

The 400,000 sq ft number includes 130,000 sq ft for Wegmans, doesn't it?

My family was urged to sign a petition to get Wegmans to go to the mall instead of Reisterstown Rd - as if that is a valid option.

Maybe those aren't the only numbers Shirley is fudging?

Sher, if you want all the facts, when this plant started in 1919, it was call Ft. Howard. Then Maryland Cup, then Sweetheart Cup, then Solo Cup. It closed in 2011. As a matter of fact the plant was still operating when it was put up for sale last year. If you do not like the figures I gave you, then you should call Mr. Gibbons because it is one of his reports that states that Solo had 2500 employees. And on this I believe he is correct at the peak of their operation.

yes Ms. Supik I was able to discover the prior owners of the property as well, it just didn't merit listing them all, hence the line, "under different names".

You don't mention how many people were supporting Foundry Row.
Actually, I thought the vote on the matter was to be on August 28 - that is when supporters should turn out. But, I agree, Patch should have given coverage even to orchestrated opposition.

BCalvert- We have been reporting both sides of this story from the very beginning. Bryan Sears covers the county council, and we are planning to use photos and arguments from the meeting in future stories.

I, too, thought that the next meeting to attend was the vote on the 28th. I didn't learn that people were turning out to discuss the Solo rezoning until the meeting had already started.

I will be at the meeting on the 28th to show my support for the rezoning/Foundry Row-Wegmans project. Anyone else who supports the project should email Ms. Almond and the council (council2 @ baltimorecountymd.gov & countycouncil @ baltimorecountymd.gov) to let them know, and turn out for the meeting, as well.

Marc - I look forward to reading about coverage from that meeting.

I would think that if there are as many people blogging about how much Foundry Row needs to be approved, they would have been there last week to speak... And if you didn't know there was a CC meeting last week, then you aren't as informed as you claim to be.... The turnout was phenomenal for the opposition....I loved every minute!!!!

The council already had meetings to hear comments on zoning issues. The meeting earlier this month was not for that purpose. However, your coalition chose to go any way. That is why only the coalition and a couple others attended the meeting. This was probably in an orchestrated attempt by the coalition to make it seem as though there was little or no support for the project.

In general, people are much more likely to go out of their way to complain about something than they are to say they like something. So even when a minority oppose an issue, they can be so vocal as to appear that they are the majority. It is unfortunate but true.

The monthly County Council meeting is public, which means any member of the public can attend and have an opportunity to voice a concern. That's what 100+ members of the public who oppose the rezoning request did on August 6. Those in support of rezoning could have done the same thing if they chose to.

Honestly, its probably because of your antics that not many people are taking you seriously and are begining to find your efforts a pathetic attempt to not have the rezoning passed. Having people almost bribe the public with free water on the hottest day of the year, having those kids stand out there on Reisterstown road in the heat, offering free snow cones, asking them to sign petitions without giving the full truth, accusing the developers of failure of transparency-when you won't release your own financial backers for the say no to solo coalition, posting hundreds of bright orange signs around Garrison Forest Plaza, then posting those huge wooden signs that were dangerous as they blew down in a windstorm-hope no one was hurt by them, removing comments from the coalition's facebook page when confronted with an issue you don't like, posting the outdated traffic study when there was a newer one, the robo calls with the veiled "survey questions" that were all squewed in the direction to be against the rezoning, to locals who are do not call lists- I got called 3 times and I'm on the do not call list, the post card mailings...anyone else want to chime in?

As I stated before I am a stay at home Mom. I do not work for Greenberg Gibbons or anyone else for that matter. I have 4 kids. 1 in college, 2 in high school, 1 in elementary school.
Why do you have to resort to accusing someone of unsavory behavior when their views opposed yours? This just adds credibility to your increasingly desperate behaviors, actions, and words.
Innuendo will not help your cause. Straight facts and honesty will. But frankly I haven't seem much of that.

Is that a hint of projection, Shirley? Or are we still to believe that you and your husband funded the robo calls, push polls, mailers, petition drive and print ads all by yourselves?

Here we go (again) -trying to reduce someone's credibility by accusing them of working for (bribes from) your opponent. Come on, Shirley, put this one back in your bag of tricks. It's getting old.

You are quick to accuse others of wrong doing, yet, won't tell how you've funded this huge campaign against Foundry Row or address the deceptive tactics used by your coalition.

NPR said they will post it on their site as well.

The full study has not been released, but here is what we wrote about a summary of the study: http://owingsmills.patch.com/articles/memo-foundry-row-improvements-could-solve-traffic-woes
The back road is a service road that exists today, it runs parallel to Reisterstown Road behind Solo Cup and could go from Painters Mill all the way to Valley Center if all of the property owners allow Greenberg Gibbons those connections.

Another question, maybe Mr Shapiro can find the answer to this one. The Metro Centre on Painters Mills Road, which is 6/10th of a mile from Reisterstown Road is going to be 5 times the proposed size of Foundry Row and essentially use the same roads. Was any consideration made for the increased traffic that will be created when the Metro Centre is completed? Did they have to file traffic studies? Did anyone consider the increased traffic that will be created for that development. Its truly unreasonable to expect the majority of the users of establishments in the Metro Centre will come via public transportation.

Another point about Painters Mill Rd (which I pointed put earlier and elsewhere) is that not only is it the main access road to Metro Centre, but that I believe it is in the flood plain of Gwynns Falls and Red Run, and could be inaccessable in at least a major flood.

Link to the study (it's a PDF file): http://www.hostedfiles.org/ggc/facebook/FoundryRowTrafficImpactStudy.pdf

There is no copy of the full study anywhere online. Gibbons has not released the full study... what he has released is a summary of the study, which I can't trust because how do we know what has not been included in that study summary?

To respond to Sher, Maryland and KW, This is a Brian Gibbons tactic. He has been acusing since the coalition was formed and just insinuated again on the air that I work for Kimco or Howard Brown. I am tired of saying I am not. If I had their backing I would have hundreds of people on the street telling the truth and signing people up. And Maryland, you inferred that the author of this article was in bed with Kimco & Brown in an early comment here. See you don't like it when someone does it to you. I am proud of everyone of you who voice their opinion whether I agree or not. We all must stand up for what we believe in, and that is what I am doing.

One of those property owners is Howard Brown & David Cordish. You know Brown will never allow that road to go through.

And why wouldn't Howard Brown -ever- agree to let the road go through? If Foundry Row is built, that road would be in the best interest of Owings Mills. I thought Howard Brown wanted what's in the best interest of Owings Mills...

More accurately, he wants what's in his own best interest.

So why not remove all doubt and release your financial backers? And to further that, aren't you a "non profit"? Aren't you required to make public your IRS form 990 - information returns and IRS form 1023-Application for Recognition of Tax Exemption. That might clear up the issue of who you really work for? Maybe Mr. Shapiro would do your cause some good if you sent those documents to him and he could write an article in favor of your cause.

And no,again, I don't currently work, but I did before moving here, almost 10 years ago. Hence my knowledge of IRS forms.

I guess it was Shirley who had all those signs and giveaways in front of Safeway - was that the source of her funding? I'd think Safeway would be anti Giant, since Giant's near monopoly in the corridor killed their Pikesville store. Or maybe that is the source. Maybe Giant is afraid they'll lose their St Thomas store, at least. Hmmm? Did they have anything to do with the disappearance of Weis and Shoppers? Though the Weis manager told me Valley Center wanted to raise their rent too much.

And Greenberg Gibbons has mailed out palm cards several times to residents up and down the Reisterstown Road corridor which I know is not cheap

BCalvert, what's a palm card? I've never gotten anything in the mail, either pro or con Foundry Row, and I live less than a mile away. I at least look at my junk before tossing it in the recycle bag.

post card? I received 1 from the supporters of Foundry Row, which I believe was clearly marked who paid for it, and no phone calls. BUT from the opponents of the Foundry Row site, I received 2 post cards-1 to me and 1 to my husband, plus 3 phone calls-1 where the caller hung up on me when confronted with questions they could not answer. AND I've been approached by multiple people in front of Safeway in a manner that was barely polite, confrontational and misleading. And the 2 post cards, the phone calls and the in your face "sign my petition" people don't even admit they are with Say No to Solo even when wearing a button or a shirt that reflects that.

I live and shop in the area, and I received 3 postcards in support of Foundry Row. I read them each time and trashed them... No thank you, GG! There are plenty of other locations in NW Baltimore County to put a new retail mall-size shopping center. I am just not buying the gimmick that the SOLO Cup site is the only answer. Sorry to differ with so many STRONG, largely one-sided opinions here on Patch, but it is what it is. The elected officials will have to draw the line on Aug 28.

Exactly!!

Dad of Dozens - is that another version of Mom of Many? I'm sure Giant would love to know their stores are just glorified 7-11s. And if they wanted out of a lease, I'm sur their lawyers would find a way. As for being starry eyed abiut Wegmans, I go their mostly for paper goods, laundry supplies and staples - some meats cheeses and produce. I mostly avoid their specialties or I'll spend more than I want to there. Giant, Aldi, Trader Joe and Mars will still get most of my business when Wegmans comes in.

Though my degree is not in writing, it is a business/math degree and will probably require a certain amount of writing reports. I have not thought of myself in the light of a professional writer, as math has been my strong suit.
If you know of any jobs that are available for a mid-career woman with 4 children at home, carrying a 16 credits each for the next two semesters, with 24 years of business experience, 14 of those in management, let me know.
It is an interesting concept of working for social media. I thoroughly love the research and get consumed by conveying the messages in a particular manner.
Again, thank you.

Geography shouldn't matter. Everyone and anyone can have a stake in the outcome of the rezoning issue. People come from all over to work and play in Owings Mills. We pay State and County taxes and fees which may be used for any number of projects across the State and County. Just because someone lives in Catonsville does not mean he does not have an interest in what is happening in Owings Mills or any other place.

BrownGirl, your argument has merit on the surface. Certainly, people other than those who actually live in the region could have a stake in this. However, it is also just as possible that people from outside the region aren't very knowledgable about and won't be affected by the issues here. The signatures are more legitimate when they are obtained from people in Owings Mills, whether for work or as residents. It seems a stretch to think that a random person selected from elsewhere in Baltimore County will be aware of the issues and be able to make an informed decision about the project. For that reason, it appears irresponsible and self-serving to obtain signatures from all around the county as the Vote No group has done. That action also seems to suggest that they could not garner enough support for their cause from people who have a vested interest in the area. Owings Mills alone has a population of over 30,000, plus many more people come here for work. If there is as much opposition as claimed, why travel all around the county for signatures when there are plenty to be had here?

I say that geography should and does have bearing.

@ KW - I beg to differ. It is entire possible and reasonable for people who live elsewhere to be very informed and interested in what is going on in other parts of the region. Just because I don't live in downtown Baltimore or on the Eastern Shore, does not mean I do not care or have a vested interest in the issues that impact those areas, for example. I just don't think it is fair to complete discount another's choice of which 'side' they are on concerning this issue simply because they don't have a physical address across the street from the project. Those charged with making this important decision about rezoning, which will end up costing all of us something, should seriously consider everything at their disposal, even those 7000+ signatures on the petitions.

BrownGirl- You misunderstand me. I think that people who work in the area or come frequently for other reasons may have valid concerns about development, and their input should matter. Those people can be found directly in the OM area. It is not likely that a random person found at a grocery store in Timonium or a fair in Catonsville will be someone who meets that criteria.

Again, if there is so much opposition in the OM area, why not obtain signatures from the OM area where you will find most of the people who have a vested interest in this matter? Yes, a random person from Catonsville who doesn't come to OM much might have heard the news stories and have an opinion, but should their opinion be given the same weight as someone who lives in OM? I'd say not. We all have opinions, whether the subject is our business or not.

@ Chuck... From what I have heard from people who oppose the rezoning is that this has nothing to do with loving or hating Ken Oliver... They are wanting to have a voice in the decision-making process and not feel like changes that affect their pocketbooks are being shoved down their throats. I also wonder about all these jobs that are allegedly going to come to the area. Are the majority of these jobs going to pay well enough to support a household (salary and benefits), or just more PT, seasonal type jobs that pay very little? Just asking the question...

The Coalition actually collected a little over 9,500 signatures in Districts 1,2 & 4. We pulled 2,500 because they were not residents of Baltimore County. However, they worked or shopped or visited friend or family in our area and felt since they travel Reisterstown Road and shopped in this area they had a right to voice their opinion. Since these are the people we want to draw into the area for economics, I felt the same way, but I knew that some people would find fault with anyone but locals, so I opted for just those at 7,100.